Re: Chandas
Subbarao Varigonda (varigond@cems.umn.edu)
Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:52:25 -0600 (CST)
Hi!
As Sri Bachoti Rao and I had some separate discussion and tried for a
definitive opinion, some new things resulted. I am posting them here
with his permission. There are minor additions relevant to telusA.
His statements are quoted (with >).
> several places. So I wonder why we are differing! I think it was because
> the discussion was a little off the track. Since both of us are interested
> in chandas, let us see where we misunderstood each other.
yes. many extraneous things also interfered. perhaps by putting together
the facts we observed, may be we can better understanding.
> Your first posting:
>
> >Normally, the letter before a compound letter is guruvu. But, when the
> >compound letter starts a new word (or word in a sandhi), you have
> >the freedom to take the preceding letter as laghuvu if necessary, especially
> >is the compound letter has 'rEphamu (ra-vattu)'. Use of this exception
> >with other compounds is less common.
I think the above statement if taken in isolation and literally will be
incorrect. I guess the responses posted prior to my first response
influenced the phrasing of my intention. I don't remember what exactly
Sri Ramakrishna posted first (the first few mails weren't saved by me.
a mistake) but it appealed more restrictive than the reality to me.
I think he said that 'only for rEpha letters laghuvu is taken when the
words are separate'.
In order to express my experience with the poems of the kind I quoted
later, I phrased that rule like that and I also acknowledged that
they are my own words and the actual rule goes something like that.
I invited corrections from authentic sources. I did believe in my mind that
the authentic sources would not give any 'freedom' but they will prescribe
what the exact criterian is.
So my intention in using freedom is 'more freedom than what the earlier
posts said'.
In fact, it's only during this discussion I made a critical analysis
of what were the implications of my statement and learnt to interpret it
more meaningfully. Certainly, when posting it, i didn't have the same deal of
insight into it.
My statement explained two more cases not allowed by the previous criterian
but it also added two more cases which are seriously doubtable. Unfortunately,
I don't remember where/whether I found any poems which use these. I am helpless
until I happen to find such an occurence again. More over, I should find one,
not by an 'allA-tappA' poet. I can't say when or whether that will happen.
Till then, I agree with you to be conservative and not use these two
'unsupported' implications.
Previously, I held my vague notion of 'freedom' 'coz the exact
criterian wasn't known. That vague notion includes all possible uses
and so we can never find a counter example to it. The right thing to do
is to find the precise rule from a reference like 'sulakshnasaara' or
'appakavIyam'. That objective of mine was underemphasized by me in the
heat of the debate. I regret that thing. But I strongly emphasize that
I did anticipate and welcome corrections to parts of that statement.
But no one acknowledged the correct cases(6 of 8) even! Perhaps that made me
forget the original objective of finding the precise criterian and
attempt to defend the implications of my statement.
In that sense, the discussion has been helpful to me. vElUri gAru posted
some relevant poems from sulakshanasaara. Any exceptions must have been
stated in the same book elsewhere. Interpreting these poems precisely in
every case is also not trivial. ('oodi palukuTa' etc). I appreciate if
Sri Ramakrshna can help by stating chandO experts' opinion.
> What I said was that this freedom is not there. All your examples
> of telugu samaasas take such letters as laghuvu, not guruvu.
> Rules
> for telugu and Sanskrit samaasas are different but stress is a good
This is a very useful observation I feel. I observed it after analysing
the sanskrit stotras. perhaps it provides a clue. I hypothesize the
following.
In sanskrit chandas, it's always taken as guru (even in non-samaasas).
I didn't find an instance like 'sahajamagu prEma' where laghuvu is taken.
(is there any?) But in telugu, we take laghuvu. So, depending on whether
the words are of sanskrit or telugu, may be we can fix guru or laghu.
> criterion. And that stress determines what it should be but will not
> give us freedom. The same letter in the same place (like gu in sahajamagu
> prEma) cannot be taken as guruvu or laghuvu to suit the poem's
> chandas.
I agree I misinterpreted by using that phrase 'to suit the poem's chandas'.
Given an instance, a letter can never be both guru and laghu. What I meant is
in two different instances having the same grammatical scenario (samyuktAkshara
and samAsam) both guruvu(sanskrit) and laghuvu(telugu-kAlivrELLu) are taken.
That is intended to imply that there is another criterian we are missing.
> What letter should be guruvu and what should be laghuvu is a different
> kind of discussion. Why a particular letter is laghuvu or guruvu can be
> discussed but the point is can it be both? I feel the answer is no.
Yes. the answer is no. a single letter can not be both. but in different
places, in a similar situation laghu, guru are taken.
> The origin of that rEpha clause is probably the words like kAlivrELLu
> where they were looking for an explanation of li being laghuvu. My point
> is it can only be laghuvu but never a guruvu.
In sanskrit samAsaas they are taken as guruvu. When we adopt a sanskrit
word and telugize it, isn't it an ambiguous situation? (Just another thought.
If there are 'sankara' ie hybrid padAlu?)
> As I said, my knowledge is limited but what I have is an old interest
> sprouting up now and then. I can be wrong too.
Me too!
>
> Regards,
>
> Sridhara Rao
-subbarao
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